1) It is extremely important for you to realize that the Srimad Bhagavatam,
Gita etc. CANNOT be accurately ‘dated’ by reference to available Indian or
Hindu sources alone. When we talk about dating, are we speaking of the stories
or philosophy, or of a particular form of these, or of a specific text or
edition, translation or tradition of a literature? Some ancient texts are
collections, and like ancient temples still in use, have cores unimaginably
old, with later structures built onto them Thus ‘dating’ ancient literatures,
and especially religious texts, may be extremely problematic . However, the
main problem with our current approach to dating Indic Traditions, is the very
idea that they are only Indic Traditions. We begin with a myopic premise,
looking only in India, nearby, or perhaps in Europe for our evidence, when
there is a VAST amount of information IN PLAIN SIGHT and easily accessible
outside of these areas. Sometimes a great amount of valuable relevant
information is available in other areas, which may not be not as available for
the same period in India for a variety of reasons. For instance, the arid
climate and use of stone in other regions has preserved the histories of entire
civilizations, whereas in India, the humidity and use of wood has resulted in
huge losses, with the evidence of entire civilizations almost entirely decaying
back into the Earth.
So, how can a study of ancient inter-racial Messianic Judaism, in the
Mediterranean Region, help us to date Srimad Bhagavatam or Bhagavad-gita ? It
is very simple.
If we found a copy of Gita in Egyptian, chisled into a temple wall, reliably
dated at 3000 bc, we would have to conclude that Gita existed that early.
Regardless of the evidence in India, or from Sanskrit, Gita would be at least
as ‘old’ as its earliest known edition in any form. Although i have not found
the Gita, (but i have found related texts), i have found the entire Religion of
the Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, Its God, His Holy Names and Forms, Sacraments,
social order etc. in the Proto-Catholic Mediterranean Inter-racial
Heliopolitan Asyla Federations. This inter-racial tradition among the Semites
eventually came to be called ‘Judaism’. With the coming of Jesus Christ,
Apostolic Catholic Christianity evolved out of this inter-racial emanational
and incarnational salvific monotheism. Specifically, the last of the great
Heliopolitan Asyla Federations…that of Serapis centered at Alexandria,
evolved into Catholicism. The stories, rites, theology, symbols etc. of the
Proto-Catholic Serapean Asyla Federations are all those which would be familiar
to any learned Catholic, or Krishna-Balarama Vaishnava even. In fact, it is
Balarama as Sesha-Charaka (the legendary Ayur Vedic Deity, not the late court
Physician) who was worshiped as Eshmun among the Semites, Asklepius among the
Greeks, Asculapius among the Romans and as Serapis in Alexandria. All the
Protestant ‘German Higher Criticism’ and ‘Jesus Seminar’ search for the
‘Historical Jesus’ is fundamentally flawed due to failure to include a study of
the worship of the ancient Healing Deity, Serapis / Asklepius / Eshmun / Charaka
Considering that the tradition of Serapis contained the entire previous regional
Heliopolitan Tradition, which was the indigenous form of what Hindus think of as
Vaishnavism, Shaivism and Shaktism, and that the tradition of Helios goes back
to pre-history in the region, it is a vast field of treasure waiting to be
mined by those interested in all things ‘Indian’ or ‘Hindu’. Early dates
verifiable in Egypt, Jericho, Crete etc. can radically change the parameters of
dating for the related traditions in the Indus-Sarasvati and Gangetic
civilizations. If Krishna worship is proved to exist at 3000 bc in the
Mediterranean, it can no longer be considered a late invention in India.
A few examples…
Prominent worship of Eli Dje Dje Nt / Osiris in His ‘Pillar’ Form, with His
‘Brother’ or ‘Son’ BAAL and ‘Sister’ Asherah, dated by Egyptian and Semitic
artifacts well before 1000 bc. His great related Barque-pulling festivals at
Thebes and giant Acacia Log Form in Byblos, and numerous other connections
going back to pre-history. (JAGGANATHA, BALARAMA AND SUBHADRA, RATHAYATRA,
BRAHMAN DARU STORY)
Heri on Garutman or Sesha Nachash well before 1500 bc.
(HARI ON GARUDA, OR ON SESHA NAGA)
Rhoda and Kouros Helios, their ‘expansions’ the Maiden Nymphs and cowherd boy
Kouroi, Their Sacred Circle Dance (Chorus), tending 365 sacred white cows,
Kouros Leading the Dance with His Aulos (FLute), on Their Bucolic (GOKULA)
Sacred Lotus Isle of Rhodes, from pre-history, datable from the Minoan Era,
circa 3000 bc. (RADHA AND KRISHNA IN GOLOKA)
EA in Sumer, Helios Delphinos at Crete (Minoan) and Rhodes, EL Dag (Fish) among
Western Semites and the Regional Flood Epic from Prehistory, datable to
Sumerian and Minoan Eras, 3000 bc. (MATSYA)
Roman era Hyperion Bes as a dwarf (VAMANADEVA)
Pre-historic Cadmus and Crete-Rhodes-related epics, 3000 bc (PARASURAMA)
Pre-atlas World Holder and Oceanus Serpent of Infinity, pre-historic
(PHERO=DHARA and ANANTA ASHAYANA)
Also Helios Tortoise World-Holder is Kelemos (KURMA).
Memphite Theology of white SKR-BAAL as Master of Mysteries and Arator / ‘Plow
Holder’ (SHUKRA BALA as HALADHARA)
Helios as Wrathful Tri-occulous ( three-eyed), pre-historic, prominently
worshiped in Argos and at Pontus. (VISHNU or LOKESHVARA as TRI-AKSHA /
Memphite-Heliopolitan PTAH-SKR-ASAR forms of HERI.(Pure Land Buddhist
antecedents… shows that Buddhism was originally as theistic, bhakti
Prayers and Litanies of the Names of HERI / ELI -ADON / ATUM / AMN which are
clearly related to HARI’s Self-Revelation in the Bhagavad-gita.
Vaishnava Murtis / symbols on Jewish etc. amulets, seals etc.
Volumes could be written with the evidence available on these connections.
Unfortunately, i am having so much trouble with my body right now, that i
cannot sit up any longer to write this letter, so i will have to stop soon. I
hope that you can understand from the above that if the stories in the
Bhagavatam, or elements of the Gita are extant in Heliopolitan Monotheism at 1,
2, 3000 bc and disappearing into pre-history in that region, then THAT is AT
LEAST the age of the same in the Indic / Sanskrit Sources.
For humanity to continue to view its sacred traditions in a bifurcated East
versus West manner must not be allowed to go on. It is destroying us. It has
torn the human family in two. Only prejudice is maintaining this artificial
division between believers of the ‘Abrahamic Faiths’ and the Eastern Bhakti
Traditions’. If there is no pre-judging (prejudice) going on, then why is no
one talking about this evidence ? Why are the scholars on this site, for
example, not commenting on my postings? Considering their recent behavior, it
is surely not ‘beneath them’ to read or respond to my submissions. If they
have the time and energy to engage in so muc electronic character asassination,
they surely have enough time to read something with such profound implications
as some of the facts that i have posted.
Do you want to prove the antiquity of Krishna-centric Vaishnava Scriptures ?
You will never succeed by ignoring the evidence from the Western Traditions.
Until Native Indologists and Hindus overcome their own egoism and hatred for
Judaism and Christianity, they will never understand how Krishna is the
pre-historic Father God of all humanity. Neither will the Western scholars
really understand who the Vedic Aryas were.
Answers to your other questions…
The best study of Meghistos Kouros that i am aware of, is the work of Jane
Harrison. She analysed the famous HYMN TO KOUROS, and the influencet of that
analysis can be see throughout her subsequent writings. Her best work on the
subject is in THEMIS A STUDYOF THE SOCIAL ORIGINS OF GREEK RELIGION. She does
not connect Kouros to Rhoda, or Radha and Krishna. She also did not fully
develope the connections between Zeus as Meghistos Kouros, and Helios, Who was
always worshiped in the Meghistos Kouros ( Greatest Ideal of Youth and Beauty)
Form. Neither did she fully develope the connection between the Helios Kouros
of the Heliopolitan Ascetics (the Platonists, Pythagoreans, Orphics,
Asclepiadae etc.) and the Asthetic worship of the Spirit (Daemon) of Love /
Eros. Still, she did connect the Meghistos Kouros to the ‘Solar Helios’, and
Hero-King / Basileo / Heracles. If she had known about our Tradition of
Krishna Vaishnavism, she surely would have recognized Kouros as Krishna, His
King / Basileos Form as Vasudeva, and His ‘Solar’ Helios Form as
Any good encyclopedia, especially about mythology, should have references to
Helios and Rhoda or Rhode, the Kouroi, Kore, the Muses, Nymphs, Horae, Chorus /
circle dance of the ‘Solar’ Deity, the three races (Greek, Semitic and African)
that inhabited ancient Rhodes and worshiped Rhoda and Helios together, Helios
as the favored Deity of monotheists throughout the region, Heliopolitan
Monotheism in Egypt being ‘founded’ by a ‘Ray’ / RA (Actis)or ‘Son’ of Helios
and Rhoda etc.
Please note that due to a confounding of the Hebrew letters Daleth D and Rosh R,
Rhoda becomes DODA in ancient Hebrew Sources, like the ‘Old Testament’.
The Master of the Mysteries and Hierophant of Helios and Rhoda was Dio-Nysos.
This is Balarama as Deva-Nyasa, God of anointing or initiation. He Himself is,
‘The Anointed One’ ie the Hebrew MESHACH or Messiah (Christ). Jewish scholars
have long speculated about their own Eli-Yahu and Shekinah (SHAKTI) ‘Bridal
Mysticism’ being related to some ‘mystery school’ in the Mediterranean. I have
positively identified that school as the Divine Love Tradition of Helios Kouros
and Kore Rhoda, on the Sacred Lotus Island (DVIPA) of Rhodes. Thus, the Bridal
Mysticism at the heart of Judaism, Catholicism and Sufi Islam is intimately
related historically and theologically to our own Radha-Krishna conjugal (root
of this word is JUG / YOGA) Divine Love (lobha) Tradition.
Numerous other ‘Mysteries’ were associated with devotion to the various local,
cosmic and super-cosmic forms of Kouros and Rhoda, manifest through their
‘expansions’ Dio-nysos (Osiris-Baal) and Shekinah / Hekate / Sekhet (SHAKTI).
Their royal ‘expansions’ were worshiped as POLIEUS and TYCHE (Fortuna-Moneta or
LAKSHMI) , manifest as the Basileos and Basilea (Vasudeva and Vasudevi) Sacred
King and Queen in their sacred Polis cities. Pol in Greek is Per in Egyptian
and PER / YIR in Hebrew. Like Puri and Bury / Berg in India and Northern
Europe, the Pol / Per was associated with the sacramental social body of
POLIEUS or PURUSHA (Rig Vedic Purusha Sukta).
Regarding the Biblical Indian Elephant Units reference. It is only in the
Septuagint and related CATHOLIC BIBLES. Protestant bibles do not usually have
the same books in them. In FIRST MACHABEES Chapter 1, verse 18, these units
are listed as part of the force Antiochus Epiphanes uses to conquer Egypt.
Later in Chapter 6, his son (also called Antiochus), returning out of Egypt,
with the same army, invades Jerusalem. There is a detailed description of the
elephant units from 6. 34 to 38, wherein it is clearly stated that these units
were commanded by Indians. Most Catholic Bibles say ‘Indian’ where the Greek
Septuagint says ‘Indos’. There are two more mentions in 6.43 and 46.
Did you read about the appearance of Eli-Yahu as the Rider and Two Youths in
SECOND MACHABEES chapter 3 ? Following the Protestant iconoclastic trend, some
recent Catholic Bibles have now obscurred this Theophany by calling it an
angelic appearance. However, reading it in the Greek, it is absolutely, clearly
GOD HIMSELF (in the singular ! ) WHO APPEARS TO HELIODORUS AND THOSE ASSEMBLED
IN THE GREAT TEMPLE OF JERUSALEM.
Regrettably i must stop now.
Please pray for me to somehow carry on this mission to unite all the devotees of
the Lord, with the unifying truth that can set us free from racial and religious
fear and hatred. your aspiring servant, Bhakti Ananda Goswami